Minding20 Plants20 20 Many20 Minds20 Podcast
Jun 12, 2023

Minding Plants with Paco Calvo and Natalie Lawrence (podcast)

Scientists and philosophers are starting to ask whether concepts like planning, memory, and awareness may also extend beyond animals, into the kingdom of plants.

By Templeton Staff

Paco Calvo and Natalie Lawrence discuss how plants respond to anesthesia, how they mimic other plants’ leaves, how they seem to be able to “see” their surroundings. 

Many Minds podcast host, cognitive scientist, and writer Kensy Cooperrider introduces the episode:

“Let’s start with a little riddle: What kind of organism has no eyes, no mouth, and no brain, but — arguably — has a mind?

Most of the work on non-human minds has, naturally, focused on animals — apes, dogs, whales, bats. Some have considered other branches of the tree of life, too —cephalopods, say, or insects. But, just over the past few decades, some brave scientists and philosophers have begun to look even further. They’re starting to ask whether concepts like planning, memory, and awareness may also extend beyond animals, into an entirely different kingdom of life. They’re starting to take seriously the minds of plants. 

My guests today are Paco Calvo and Natalie Lawrence. Paco is director of the Minimal Intelligence Lab at the University of Murcia in Spain and one of the leading figures in the new science of plant intelligence. Natalie is a writer, illustrator, and historian of science based in London. Paco and Natalie are the authors a new book, Planta Sapiens. In it, they make the case that plants — though so often treated as an inert backdrop — are, in fact, cognitive creatures. Albeit creatures of a very different sort. 

In this conversation, we talk about the fact that plants are so often ignored, by both lay people and scientists alike, and consider some of the reasons why this may be. We discuss some spectacular phenomena that have recently come to light about plants — how they respond to anesthesia, how they mimic other plants’ leaves, how they seem to be able to “see” their surroundings. We talk about the question of whether certain plants have evolved to be more cognitively sophisticated than others. We consider the fact that plants and animals rely on the very same neurotransmitters and traffic in the same sort of electrical signaling. We also touch on wild versus domesticated plants, Charles Darwin’s root-brain hypothesis, plant sensing as akin to echolocation, the power and dangers of time-lapse photography, and the question of whether plants have inner experience.

Plants are super cool in themselves. Honestly, some of the stuff we discuss in this episode — if you’ve never heard it before — will kind of blow your mind. But plants are also more than that: they’re a prism through which to examine some of the biggest questions about intelligence and cognition. Questions like: What are the minimal requirements for conscious experience? Are brains necessary for thinking? Can we truly compare the cognitive abilities of very different species? And should we?”

Play the full episode with the above player.

Learn more about Templeton World Charity Foundation's Diverse Intelligences priority.


Templeton World Charity Foundation's Diverse Intelligences is a multiyear, global effort to understand a world alive with brilliance in many forms. Its mission is to promote open-minded, forward-looking inquiry in animal, human, and machine intelligences. We collaborate with leading experts and emerging scholars from around the globe, developing high-caliber projects that advance our comprehension of the constellation of intelligences.

Many Minds is a project of the Diverse Intelligences Summer Institute (DISI), made possible through a grant from TWCF to the University of California, Los Angeles (UCLA). The Many Minds podcast is hosted and produced by Kensy Cooperrider, with help from assistant producer Cecilia Padilla. Creative support is provided by DISI Directors Erica Cartmill and Jacob Foster. Artwork featured as the podcast badge is by Ben Oldroyd.